Although my fellow friend on Melative/IRC, kimaguresan is planning to write a article on this, I decided that I should share my own thoughts on why Crunchyroll is not only killing fansubs, but killing licensed DVDs and disadvantages.
Everyone can say that Crunchyroll is the best thing ever since you have to pay 6.99 a month to watch the latest episodes. I feel that Crunchyroll is a worse version of Hulu, which they are deciding on a paid model for some of it’s shows and older episodes. With Crunchyroll, you are stuck with low resolution video that you have to watch commercials and you can’t see the new stuff for a whole week… bummer right? How about people who are locked out of Crunchyroll and fansubs groups not subbing the show because it’s on CR? What is their only option? Crunchyroll rips?
I despise Crunchyroll not only because of their disservice to the anime community, but it’s killing licensed DVD releases. Between their poor quality translations and video quality (unless you subscribe), Crunchyroll is the worst choice compared to Licensed DVDs or even fansubs.
Let’s put aside that issue for now because their are other problems CR is doing… Once a anime gets onto CR, I feel that there will be no incentive for licensing companies to even license the series and put it on DVD or how about metered internet? Why the hell you want to stream if the ISP is going to give a 5 GB cap and charging $5 per 1 GB for overages? What if your area have no fast broadband internet and you are stuck with slow satellite or dialup internet? No one will be able to watch it since you can ‘t even get it on DVD since Licensing companies have no incentive of releasing it. This will be later discussed in the editorial, but let’s focus on how CR will make Licensors to not even bother licensing the series. This is evident because I haven’t seen any CR show get licensed and released on DVD “yet.”
Is Crunchyroll killing Licensed DVDs?
So far, yes because Anime usually have low replay value, unless the show is really good. Crunchyroll translate the anime and adds the subs within 24 hours and viewers watch it. Viewers will most likely watch it once and not watch the episode again, but why I am saying that Crunchyroll is killing DVDs? Since the viewers are going to watch it on CR anyways, why the hell licensors like Bandai Entertainment, Funimation, Section 23 (former ADV) and others would want to release the show onto DVD when they know that the viewers aren’t going to buy it? This means that noone will be able to own these titles that are on Crunchyroll ever…
Some people may ask, why you need physical media when you have streaming and videos you can get at the iTunes store? The answer is this, you don’t actually own anything and they are most likely infested with DRM, Digital Rights Management. This means you can’t put the anime on any device such as portable media players, Playstation 3, Zune HD, Smartphones like the iPhone, etc. With streaming, you don’t actually own the file at all and that uses bandwidth. Streaming video compared to audio is bandwidth intensive and with some ISPs like Time Warner Cable and AT&T trying to push for metered internet, why do you even want to stream from Crunchyroll anymore?
Another case against Crunchyroll, Metered or Capped Internet and Broadband Availability
Last year, some users have noticed that Time Warner wants to test metered internet in some markets, which caused so much outrage that someone wanted to pass a Anti-Metered Internet Bill. AT&T doing the same and Verizon pushing for metered internet. Metered Internet may be a stupid idea, but if it’s actually implemented, sites like Crunchyroll will get hurt the most. Then, most viewers are left without options since CR streaming takes too much bandwidth compared to just downloading the episode to a single file or buying a DVD. What if you want to show it again to someone else or you want to re-watch it? You have to use double the amount of bandwidth and it will eat up your cap even more. Video streaming is bandwidth intensive and can easily eat up your cap and cause expensive overages. Also, college dorms usually limits their internet with small caps, so it’s pointless to stream there either since you will lose internet access for a whole week.
This is the reason why streaming video is stupid. You can’t store the file for later viewing and you need a internet connection just to watch it. What if you on a airplane and want to watch some anime… well you can’t since there is no internet connection nor CR provides a file where you can play it locally. While you at it, streaming CR using a mobile broadband connection like AT&T’s Data Connect will probably rack up those overages rather quickly.
Another thing is broadband penetration. Not all areas have broadband, especially most places in the south and rural areas. DSL is not even suitable for any video streaming of any kind, unless you want to wait alot. These people who live in areas with lack of broadband options are often stuck with dialup, cellular or satellite internet, which is unsuitable for streaming. Like mentioned earlier, licensors are reluctant to license and release something on CR, so the users who lack fast broadband is left in the dark, unable to watch the series they want to watch. I think this is unfair because there is no other viable options for people to watch their anime with any method and CR is pretty much your only choice.
Not to mention, the average US Broadband Speed is 3.9 Mbps, which is not as fast compared to other countries…
So what should CR do to solve this?
Well, providing downloadable, non-DRM video files for subscribers of the episodes can be a start and also giving an incentive for licensors to license the anime and release onto DVD. This way, it allows more options and users don’t have to use their bandwidth just to play the episode over again and have something to own. In addition, they should try to negotiate so they can provide the service to everyone. Until they open up and stop making the same mistakes, I will be against Crunchyroll forever… (and I highly doubt any of this will happen.)
And if capped/metered internet becomes a reality… Crunchyroll is pretty much screwed.
Edit: Maybe I am a bit wrong… since Section23 announced a license for Gintama, which is on CR… So I know one thing, CR doesn’t kill licensed DVD releases, or perhaps just makes them less attractive for a DVD release, with some possible evidence from this video from Funnimation. However, there is still a lot I hate about Crunchyroll.
I think that you are incorrect about CR and R1 DVD’s. Well, really http://www.ggkthx.org/2010/01/08/responses-from-sam/ says that you are incorrect about it, among other things.
And you may not be aware, but metered internet is not “may be implemented,” it is implemented, and it’s the norm for a ton of ISP’s in a number of countries. That has not killed YouTube, least of all CR.
Licensing is actually only hinted at. It’s dealt with in more detail at http://www.ggkthx.org/2010/01/10/jaka-bugs-sam-for-2hrs-and-i-paste-the-chatlog/
I haven’t watched any CR subs, so I can’t comment on the quality, but I do think it’s a mixed bag. There are some decent subbers there I’m sure, but who knows what kind of output they are expected… this is coming from someone who doesn’t like 80% of R1 translations (or dubs or R1 extra production crap).
Lot’s of paradox with streaming :/ I prefer files and media.
Yea, metering exists in many places and it sucks, but like I mentioned, Youtube still gets used, but Youtube can’t be compared with CR because it’s offering is much more diverse and is a larger site in general. If people had to choose between Youtube and CR, I think it’s obvious where bandwidth would go.
Altogether I think metering is a separate concern for CR. Something more relevant is the issue of them being able to raise their level of stream quality and bandwidth, which frankly I think is a paradox in itself.
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In a perfect world CR could outsource the work to the better subbing groups (especially speed subbers). I’ve found CR’s work to be pretty hit and miss, but by far the quality of their subs are simply inferior (even to speed-subbers). It’s probably a quantity-over-quality issue, and I can’t see their quality improving drastically at this rate.
Just when I think I have it right, I get proven wrong. Section 23 announced a license for Gintama today. I’m pretty sure it was pretty popular on CR. So with that said, I’ll need to re-think my position a bit. Still a lot to dislike about CR and streaming in general, though.
The only way to solve CR’s problem is, SHUT DOWN THEIR FUCKING WEBSITE.
@kimaguresan : I guess I was wrong too, but still alot I hate about crucnhyroll despite that.
You weren’t entirely incorrect. Even though the recent Gintama license has proven that some R1 DVD distributors will pick up a show that’s been on CR, such shows are in fact less attractive for DVD companies.
FUNimation on their 2nd online panel ( http://bit.ly/4G4IwX ) confirmed that if a show is on Crunchyroll (or another streaming site), they have less incentive to acquire it. I’m not entirely sure how the system works, but apparently the license to stream a show is different from the license to release it on DVD. As we know, FUNi likes to stream their shows on ther website in addition to releasing them on DVD. If CR has the streaming license, that means FUNi can’t get it and thus cannot put the show on their website.
Although I have been told that Linebarrels of Iron is streaming on both CR and FUNi’s site, so I’m not sure how they worked that out…
I’m just personally hoping that Saki someday gets an R1 DVD release. I hate watching it on CR with its buffering issues and choppy video quality.
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A lot of problems with this post.
Crunchyroll runs off a paid model, which is understandable. Nothing in this world is free, unless you steal it; i.e. fansubs. If you aren’t willing to pay for a subscription you can’t expect to get 720p quality with no advertisements. FUNimation works on the same way, except they don’t offer a paid subscription. I’d rather have the option to obtain higher quality releases.
I agree that people who aren’t in Crunchyroll supported regions suffer, but licensing is a difficult issue. These same people more than likely are the same people who have to import their anime DVD’s because they also don’t get as much, if any, DVD’s licensed. This issue isn’t Crunchyroll’s alone.
I won’t get into much detail about DVD licenses since it was already mentioned, but as we all know many shows currently streaming have been licensed. Hayate no Gotoku is being released by Bandai, as is Code Geass. Naruto is being released by Viz. We also have plenty of the anime being shown with their manga versions such as Reborn being released. If it weren’t for Crunchyroll, we might never have seen Reborn legally. It has been out for a while and not a single hint of it ever being released on DVD before Crunchyroll stepped up.
As for metered/capped internet, it’s not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. I have a 60 GB cap which pales in comparison to most ISP’s. It’s ridiculously small in today’s internet driven world. Yet I play WoW 24/7, game on my Xbox 360 and PS3 online, and watch 50%+ of Crunchyroll’s current content. I still have room to spare for extra downloads. Without extra downloads I end up with about 30-40 GB of the cap used.
Of course there is the whole issue of rewatching, but for a one time watch being capped doesn’t hinder you at all. Even rewatching a couple episodes wouldn’t be a huge problem.
One thing that needs mentioning is I think distributors look at show popularity on Crunchyroll, FUNimation, etc. There’s no doubt in my mind that Crunchyroll has stats on every single show they release. I don’t see any reason not to think that before putting together a list of licenses a company has acquired they wouldn’t pay for these stats to help them in their decision.
I don’t really care if people hate on Crunchyroll, or streaming in general. I do care about the FUD tactics though. You can be against Crunchyroll, but all these issues raised aren’t really issues at all.
Personally I prefer DVD’s. I love collecting and love displaying my collections. I’m a perfectionist so I hate when a show doesn’t continue to be licensed. Zero no Tsukiama comes to mind. Only season 1 was licensed, which is a shame. This to me is a problem with DVD’s. I think it screws up statistics that companies base their decisions on. Shows may be cancelled, but how many people wait until the show is completely released? It’s the chicken and the egg argument. These people waiting in fear because a show might get cancelled, may be the same people which cause the show to be cancelled.
I think once a series is licensed, they should continue with it until it is finished. I think sales would increase if people didn’t have to worry about it being cancelled. Even thing such as art boxes. Bandai released Code Geass with a beautiful art box, yet the second season never included any. What does this say to people buying their product?
I can say the same too about your comment. The issue is that you are still punishing me for the fact that I have made a mistake and still going on. You heave to realize that CR is still not a viable alternative for the reasons of quality. Crunchyroll at it’s state of poor quality subs they provide is another reason besides the video quality. If you look at some series, you see censorship like censor steam compared to the other sources which doesn’t have any censorship of any kind. I don’t want to waste money on a product that is shady quality.
If Crunchyroll did what RyanA suggested on IRC, centralizing the videos and contract fansub groups with the license to work on the project while encrypting the MKV stream. This will allow better sub quality for the most part and we will solve the the problem. The issue is that it can be more costly and why the hell they want to use fansub groups when they can sub it themselves, but highly doubt that will happen. You can read the whole conversation here: http://pastebin.com/f4d273574
Second thing, you can’t say you aren’t allowed to post this because you thin it’s FUD. Labeling a argument as FUD is another type of opinion and not necessarily fact. Someone else can view it not as FUD and might agree with me. The thing is that the internet is free and bloggers should be able to express their opinion, FUD or not… you don’t have to agree, but no one has any right to say you aren’t allowed to post this because I don’t agree… Let’s say that I write a post about stuff I dislike on any OS. Anyone can disagree, but a person cannot say you aren’t allowed to post this because they don’t agree and saying it’s FUD. I think you don’t know the benefits of a free, self-published nature of the internet by the comment you made on that and should learn about it.
Keep that in mind when trying to post your response…
[ugh lost my comment]
@Hogart, I think we’re on the same page. Cool.
@kimaguresan, I think Gintama should be treated as a special case because it is hugely popular. It’s like if Bleach was on CR 4 years ago, it likely wouldn’t prevent it from getting licensed for DVD. CR or not has little effect on DVD licensing with massively popular series, but there is a gray area which should be of concern. Niche titles that aren’t popular on CR may get the shaft from R1 licensors.
Funi’s release is relevant, though it was obvious from the start. Paid streaming has an affect on DVD licensing decisions for all but the most popular series. Fansubs generate free energy for the industry, but licensing entities can’t “quantify” it (see it) like the can with streaming services.
IMO, free streaming is no different than fansubs when it’s relevant to DVD licensing.
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In the same token, many fansubbers sub the censored version of anime. Even Japanese TV stations put out the censored versions, with few putting out censorless versions. If you hold this against Crunchyroll, you must do the same to fansubbers, etc.
One important reason for steam is to encourage DVD sales. These viewers know they’ll get “extra” on the DVD purchases. It’s marketing, and not the fault of Crunchyroll.
Just look at local TV as another example. Stations such as PeachTree TV show censored versions of movies. You pay for your TV subscription, yet you’re getting censored content. If you want uncensored, you must buy the DVDs.
I don’t really care if others do or do not like Crunchyroll. All I care about is giving a fair opportunity. If you criticize Crunchyroll for something, stop and think about everything else. Most issues aren’t just Crunchyroll alone. I just think it’s unfair to only criticize Crunchyroll and ignoring the rest.
I never said anything about not being allowed to post. Just as you have an opinion, so do I. With articles comes criticism, just because someone is criticizing you doesn’t mean they don’t want you to post. I’m just calling it what it is, FUD. That doesn’t mean not to post. What it means is that others should research the issue themselves before believing what is told.
I’m sorry if I came across a little harsh. I enjoy reading your blog, and find most articles enlightening. You provide a good opinion and good reviews. I just happen to disagree on this issue.
As for sub translations, I can’t really comment. I don’t know Japanese and I wont pretend I do. So I can’t say if the translations are good or not. Would translations be better in the hands of fansubbers? Possibly, but I can’t honestly comment on that without giving baseless opinion.
@alamarco: No hurt feelings, okay? Not willing to make enemies, but. CR have always been a very controversial issue even on AnimeSuki that always lead to a debate, mainly because not everyone on AnimeSuki is from the US in these examples:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=85048&page=14 – Sora no Woto
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=90338 – Methods you use to watch anime: Fansub-legal stream-DVD-TV-legal DL-illegal stream?
Next time, I probably need to do some research to avoid this from happening again… I was relying on theory and my incomplete knowledge that didn’t turn out completely true…
But then again, the best way to support the Anime is just to buy the merchandise (figurines, books, CDs, etc.) on that anime. The cut the studio receives from Licensed DVD cells and CR is pretty small, so yeah.
I think discussion is pretty much done, so I’m closing comments on this topic…